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Alex Valentine's avatar

A lot of people in the non-liberal or illiberal space (I don't know if any categorization has been worked out, still seems like a cauldron of ideas) point out what you're saying here. Conservatism, as we know it now, merely exists within the frame of liberalism. I think that's accurate. The question I have yet to see answered with any specificity whatsoever, is how exactly do you organize a society outside of liberalism (hierarchy, I get it) while avoiding monarchy or fascism.

What does it actually look like, how does the government work, what system of laws are you talking about? I get that that's downstream from culture which is downstream from the animating force of culture (transcendent religion and ritual, and land and history), but until someone maps out a governing system that can manage something as large and complex as a country or nation, it feels like we are merely in a dorm room talking.

Don't get me wrong--something needs to change at a very deep level. I'm just not seeing anything that can be taken seriously, that hasn't come before with massive baggage.

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TorqueWrench10's avatar

Plenty of hierarchy at the time of Christ. Also, the real source of freedom as an idea in the west is that you don’t know how God might be leading or using a man so you don’t mess with him. Not to mention that even in the church they were not to exercise authority over each other as the Gentiles do.

I mean I largely agree with you, license isn’t freedom between legitimate options exercised by a man hopefully seeking God’s will, it’s doing whatever you want no matter how destructive. The leveling impulse is also wrong in a way that shouldn’t require much explanation.

I think though the problem is on a personal basis, if we don’t want to say individual. The solution starts on a personal level. On a communal level, in the English speaking world that will I think require building on the forms we had before. Not stopping there but starting there.

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